The Stranger
Books
SPOILER ALERT! I just finished an audio-book (I think I am too dyslexic to actually read things anymore) of The Stranger, by Albert Camus. It's a book about a guy who basically doesn't care about anything, because nothing really matters in the big picture of things. This idea is so true to this guy, that he ends up killing a man for really no reason. His 'absurd' trial, where one main bit of evidence is that he didn't cry at his mom's funeral, leads not just to his execution but to his realization that sense nothing matters in the big picture of things, the only consequential thing that matters to an individual is his death, which is his only true freedom to the absurdities of reality. At the very least, it's an interesting book because usually books aren't about unlikable main characters with such bleak subjects. But it's a good book because probably everybody at one time or another just feels this way.
I agree in some regards (before the suicidal point), but my main disagreement is that I consider my own happiness important. What I hope makes this less selfish seeming is that I think my own happiness also depends on other peoples happiness, which manifests itself as morality. Now whether this morality is taught or instinctual (I think empathy is somewhat instinctual and a source of morality) is a whole other question. Morality is probably just an attempt at the optimization of happiness, which maybe just is an increases the survival rate of the human species. I am trying to grapple with how to express that one can feel that things may not matter in the big picture, but why does that necessarily mean one should act or more importantly have an intense, pervading depression(?) like the character did in his real life? I kind of think that whether anything matters is a complete unknown, and maybe really undefinable, so why don't you concentrate on what you do know (things that make you happy) and work on that?
Books
SPOILER ALERT! I just finished an audio-book (I think I am too dyslexic to actually read things anymore) of The Stranger, by Albert Camus. It's a book about a guy who basically doesn't care about anything, because nothing really matters in the big picture of things. This idea is so true to this guy, that he ends up killing a man for really no reason. His 'absurd' trial, where one main bit of evidence is that he didn't cry at his mom's funeral, leads not just to his execution but to his realization that sense nothing matters in the big picture of things, the only consequential thing that matters to an individual is his death, which is his only true freedom to the absurdities of reality. At the very least, it's an interesting book because usually books aren't about unlikable main characters with such bleak subjects. But it's a good book because probably everybody at one time or another just feels this way.
I agree in some regards (before the suicidal point), but my main disagreement is that I consider my own happiness important. What I hope makes this less selfish seeming is that I think my own happiness also depends on other peoples happiness, which manifests itself as morality. Now whether this morality is taught or instinctual (I think empathy is somewhat instinctual and a source of morality) is a whole other question. Morality is probably just an attempt at the optimization of happiness, which maybe just is an increases the survival rate of the human species. I am trying to grapple with how to express that one can feel that things may not matter in the big picture, but why does that necessarily mean one should act or more importantly have an intense, pervading depression(?) like the character did in his real life? I kind of think that whether anything matters is a complete unknown, and maybe really undefinable, so why don't you concentrate on what you do know (things that make you happy) and work on that?
posted by Toddypoo at 1:26 PM
4 Comments:
Lots of interesting places where I want to comment...but I dont know where to begin! Let me take a moment to express my thoughts and feelings. Please excuse me if these sound rude or uncouth - see, I always have the excuse of English not being my Mother tongue (me no speak English!).
but my main disagreement is that I consider my own happiness important
I am just curious...how do you define happiness? When are you happy and what causes your happiness?
Morality is probably just an attempt at the optimization of happiness
How did you arrive at this conclusion? Is it based on your own definition of happiness?? I am sure if that is universally true because I think most people are selfish (at some point or the other)...meaning they dont give a rat's ass about morality.
which maybe just is an increases the survival rate of the human species
Totally based on the previous statement...which I dont think is true.
I kind of think that whether anything matters is a complete unknown
When you say "anything matters" whose point of view you are referring to? Yours, someone close to you, God's?? From your statement, it appears as though you are talking about the Big Picture (call it God, Cosmic Consciousness, Nature, Mother Earth, Universe or any other term).
Just a few thoughts...bum beer you see :)
Excellent, this is what da blog is all about! Allrighty:
My definition of happiness: in the emotional sense, the feelings including contentment, joy, laughter, that can be correlated probably with some blood or brain chemistry, starting with neutral and ending with multiple orgasms.
Morality = happiness optimization: First let me define what I refer to as morality: anything you do which doesn't ostensibly physically or materially benefit you, but only "your conscience".
I arrived at this conclusion in the seconds between starting the blog and writing that sentence for, with so not too much thought, in a stream-of-consiousness manner that some may find totally masterbatory.
I tend to try to think of human concepts as evolutionary survival mechanisms. It doesn't have to be a happiness optimization, it could be a survival optimization. Or it could be a optimization of control for one group of humans to another. Happiness still rings true to me. A simple example: people steal from each other, creates more unhappiness than people not stealing from each other, hence moral of "you shouldn't steal, cause it's wrong".
I agree that people are selfish, but they have a conscience, which to me = morality. They do things not to offend thier own conscience, and hence harm thier own happiness.
increases the survival rate: as in I think morality leads to cooperation, if you can't kill the neighbor, or steal from him, then you cooperate? Cooperation = human survival.
Anything matters: the next part of the sentence is 'maybe undefinable' for precisely what you are asking about, the question is matters to whom? I don't think there is really a god, which is what most people use as an answer. So I say things matter only to me. I am hoping it minimizes my seeming selfishness to say that my own conscience, empathy, (i.e. morality), makes me care about other people...
At this point, I have to give homage to my pal M.C., who sort of broke me out of only thinking about pussy and video games in college, with a statement of 'everything everybody does is a selfish act', which is really the sentiment I think I am expanding upon.
Interesting exchange! Let me offer my 2 cents: I think the origin of "morality" can be attributed to man living in a group or "society". Thats probably another way of saying Cooperation = human survival. Morality basiclly makes sure that things run smoothly, for example, if you steal it would cause cosmic unhappiness so to speak rather than individual unhappiness(chain reaction would ensue ending with chaos). To maintain an equilibrium we need morality. I dont think the concept of god really comes in the picture here! Of course things get complicated when religion gets intertwined with social norms etc.
And thats what makes The Stranger so gripping, it depicts a very relatable albeit extreme scenario of the disconnect that most of us have experienced at some point in our lives.
I just left a comment on your first post saying that I am now sober but after reading your's and Suhasini's comments here, I have decided to take up the bottle again!!
I dont think I can understand what you guys are saying without ethanol in my blood stream. And even after ethanol injestion, I cant understand but I can, however, respond :)
Unfortunately I dont have bum beer today but some Kosher wine...:)
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